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WTF??

Well, apparently because I'm a member of childfree, and because I was annoyed, yet amused, by someone who decided to wank and whine on them, a friend has decided to remove me from their reading list.

This actually upsets me.

Why? It's not like I post all kinds of CF stuff here. I don't understand. Because I oppose stereotyping all childfree as bigotted assholes (even though some truly are)? Because I am offended by drama wanks and such who spew those stereotypes at me? Because I don't like chickenshits in any community (as opposed to personal journal) who like to dish it out but can't take it, and I like an occasional flambe session?? Because I'm a member of (at least one) community that has some very immature members? Or because I sometimes write about political and work stuff from a CF perspective?

OK, some of the angry epithets used by the hardcore childfree types are downright nasty. I don't use them, and just tend to roll my eyes when I read them. Which ones are the nastiest is a matter of personal opinion. But I don't tend to use them here. Why? It's a slang used in a certain subculture, and just plain not appropriate for general use. The same applies to other slang used in other subcultures - pagan, fannish, etc. That and some are just... stupid, crude, or unfunny.

Yes, I'm childfree. I disapprove of bratty kids, and their negligent caretakers. I am horrified by child abuse and neglect. I also love my neice and nephews, and enjoy seeing kids that are well raised. I understand that no kid is an angel all the time - I sure wasn't.

If you don't like childfree, or cf_hardcore, don't read them, please, it will only piss you off. I don't read right wing conservative (e.g. conservatism2)or pro-bush (e.g. community4bush) communities for the same reason.

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( 10 comments — Leave a comment )
law_witch
Mar. 2nd, 2006 07:47 pm (UTC)
Some people just take stuff far too personally - and with a major lack of maturity, imho.

You had posted something about the CF community before and being curious I checked it out. Ok, some of the terms used to describe kids I did find offensive - some just cracked me up. BUT being child free is a choice and I actually think it's good that other like minded people can openly talk about their choice. (ok, so some members aren't PC or 'adult' about their posts - that's life, deal with it)

I have ONE child for a damn good reason - so I understand other's CF choice (oh dear god do I EVER)

Sad when lj drama causes you to lose a friend - but then, it's lj!

ravan
Mar. 2nd, 2006 07:53 pm (UTC)
Funny thing is, even I don't read cf_hardcore - too immature.

The fact that I enjoy a good righteous roast of a wanker making drama in her own carefully controlled pool is probably not helping. I *like* to flame nits!
kshandra
Mar. 2nd, 2006 07:50 pm (UTC)
I disapprove of bratty kids, and their negligent caretakers. I also love my neice and nephews, and enjoy seeing kids that are well raised.

Agreed.

I have no beef with people who consciously choose not to bring a child into this world, nor with people who consciously - and, more to the point, conscientiously - choose to have a family. (One of my Rocky-era friends is now a mother of four...but she and her husband sat down well in advance and determined that they were in a position both financially and emotionally to support them. I don't know how she manages it, but I respect the way she went about it.)

I will admit I wound up de-f'listing someone late last year, shortly after f'listing them in the first place, after the second time zie used childfree slang in zir personal journal - and to my shame, I wasn't overly polite about it. But again, it is a question of personal comfort level, and repeated exposure to that particular terminology exceeded my boundaries.
ravan
Mar. 2nd, 2006 08:02 pm (UTC)
But again, it is a question of personal comfort level, and repeated exposure to that particular terminology exceeded my boundaries.

True. If I used CF slang here, and someone was uncomfortable with it, I really wouldn't have a right to bitch if they chose not to read it.

Even though this is my journal, I do try to be considerate of the sensitivities of my readership. I've already had one reader, last year, angrily delist me, not because I used CF epithets, but merely because I was CF. That really irked me.

If I was going to post rabidly CF stuff here, I'd put it in a CF filter, unless I felt it was fit for truly public consumption.
maida_mac
Mar. 2nd, 2006 09:33 pm (UTC)
I'm sorry. Last night, I *was* really upset. If someone posts even slightly oblique things, my curiousity tends to lead me to find out what fully happened. This led to me finding the rant itself, which really was completely inappropriate for a non-childfree venue. In short, it was at least somewhat of a troll. I felt somewhat like you were defending the rant itself, not just tweaking on Elorie.

I have many friends who are childfree (and some members of childfree), one who comes to dinner every week and deals quite well with my children on a regular basis. I fully support the decision to be childfree. Hell, if I had waited a couple of years and knew that it was really possible to live that kind of life, there would have been two less children in the world.

However, I tend to find the defenses of the use of any of those terms, outside "safe spaces", to be offensive in the extreme. I can deal with someone using them in their personal journal, as it's their place, though I likely wouldn't read it at all, if I knew I was going to run into the words.

In the end though, it's bigotry when someone starts generally insulting children, or anyone else, as a group. I've gotten really tired of hearing, from various people, "Oh, it's not YOUR children, it's THEIR little brats." You know what? In a lot of ways, it's like telling a black person, "Oh no! YOU aren't a nigger! That lazy ass over there is one though!"

Many childfree people bitch about how people don't take care of their kids, but then bitch about people like me who dedicate their lives around their children. I don't do it to the unhealthy extent that I do see in some parents, but I do it. If I'm going to raise a decent, polite, well acting human being, I have to do it.

Anyways, my upset last night was more directed at the whole thing in general, not you.
ravan
Mar. 2nd, 2006 09:46 pm (UTC)
Ah, ok. Yes, I thought the original poster needed to leave the derogatory terms out, although what she was ranting about was legit (kids in paid conferences that aren't kid oriented).

I thought she could have said "brat" and been just as accurate. (I consider the term "brat" to be purely behavioral, and I also consider some adults to be brats... ;-> )

When it comes to dedicating their lives to their kids, it's a personal choice, as long as its not unhealthy for the kid and parents. I've noticed that you have a life outside of your kids, too. I know damn well that it takes a lot of concious effort to raise kids to become good adults. I just don't want to be expected to do it, or to sublimate my life to cater to those who make this choice.
maida_mac
Mar. 2nd, 2006 09:56 pm (UTC)
Oh, I agree COMPLETELY with what they were posting about. The parent was not only inconsiderate to all the other people there, she was inconsiderate to her daughter, as well, expecting a child to even be able to handle something like that. The whole thing was moronic.

As far as I'm concerned brat is a great phrase, since it does imply behavior issues and is generally accepted as such.

I don't expect other people to dedicate their lives to kids or sublimate their life to cater to kids or parents. I just expect people to take my kids on a case by case basis and not try to scar them by calling them horrible names or constantly telling them how bad they're behaving. For that matter though, my children know that any of our friends can chastise them for their behavior and are capable of grounding them as needed. It keeps the trouble outside our presence down to a dull roar.

I do feel like society as a whole has lost the understanding of children as the true future and that they might want to consider who will be taking care of them in their old age. I don't want spoiled rotten little brats who have no sense of responsibility in charge of my life and those around me.
ravan
Mar. 2nd, 2006 11:34 pm (UTC)
I don't want spoiled rotten little brats who have no sense of responsibility in charge of my life and those around me.

*shudder* Yeah, some kids out there are going to grow up as total assholes, and all because their parents expect others (like teachers) to do the hard work of raising them, but wont let anyone else discipline them.

Fact is, kids learn responsibility from their parents or other strong adults in their lives.
heethen_crone
Mar. 3rd, 2006 02:33 am (UTC)
Ya' know, it's your LJ and your communities. I never did see the original post. BUT, and it's a big but, if I don't like something written, I just pass over it and go on to the next post, or I don't join that group. Just because I have kids doesn't mean every one else has to, some people just don't make good parents. Hel, some parents don't make good parents. And I don't like bratty kids, or think children belong every where. Children don't belong in the work place, unless it's school. They don't belong in conferences. If you can't find a sitter, stay home with 'em. And Ravan, I know you're passionate about those you care for. So just keep on ranting. It's one of the things we love about you.
ex_ciannait
Mar. 3rd, 2006 07:43 am (UTC)
That's just fucking lame.
( 10 comments — Leave a comment )

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